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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 6:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: An Parental Head's Dilemma

This problem has come up for me recently and I thought I'd throw it out there to get some feedback from any of you who have gone/are going through something similar. I recently have found that my youngest has started to become a regular user of the wacky weed. I, personally, have choosen to abstain from toking for some time now; not because of any moral issue, but I just got bored. Anywho, my dilemma is this: as a crotchety old person, I would like to see this child refrain from getting to heavily involved in that stuff until they have had more of a chance to get their life started. I feel, again personally, that my heavy use of the stuff stunted my growth into the "real world", making me want to stay baked as long as possible and avoid any real responsibility as long as possible. I am seeing these same things growing in my kid now, and it alarms me as a parent. Put aside any arguements about the legality or health issues involved, I'm mainly concerned with the lifestyle issues. My problem is that when I talk with the kid about this, I face the rebuttal of "Well, look at you, you turned out OK, so what's the problem? Are you telling me that you're special somehow and that if I do the same thing as you I'll crash and burn?" I never thought about these things being an issue when I was younger, but I sure am now. I try to explain as best I can what my concerns are and that, I'm guessing just like my parents, I just want the best for my kids and I feel that by living in a "purple haze" they are perhaps missing out on something better. Again, this is not a sermon against those who have made the choice to continue enjoying a good high, I certainly have experienced that it is possible to make that choice and also live a very happy and useful life. I'm just the worrying parent here. Anyone else been through something similar?

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

How old is your"child"? I have avoided the conversation regarding usage with my 18 yr old because she's not interested. And as a frequent participant myself, couldn't be happier. I think you actually Do have to start with legality and health and is it worth getting busted for and deterioring your lungs for? Are you willing to admit, if you haven't already, that you did use it? If the kids old enough to recognize and appreciate a talk of such honesty, they may accept your opinion more. You may have to show your cards to prove you speak from experience and for them to learn from experience which as a parent, is one of your responsibilities to them no matter what the issue. And while we may have turned out fine, what could we have accomplished otherwise? Yes, things were different when we were younger (like the drinking age was 18, cars may have had seatbelts, but no one seemed to care, etc). Have the childs grades slipped, friends changed, personal hygiene declined-all the telltale signs for when someone has made a significant lifestyle change. You have to talk to them as an adult/friend I think. Let them know above all else you love them, want the best for them and that this current form of entertainment worries you. Untimately it will be their choice, as it will be for many things along the way, and that at this point you can only let them know you want the best. In a roundabout way, if its their choice you can guilt them into making an adult choice. They may just be seeing what your reaction will be, if you care, etc. Tough call. Not to pry, but is there a wife or ex in the picture? Kids do stuff to "get back" at us for disrupting their lives sometimes. Short question, long answer .

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

She is 18 and my step-kid, although she has no contact with the natural father and she fully considers me Dad. I have always been honest with my kids about what I did back in the day and also about what I feel I lost as a result (memory, lung capacity, motivation, etc.). She is definitely at a cross roads and I am trying to help guide her without smothering her as she will rebel against that just to show me her independence. Thin ice indeed. With my son (the serviceman, now 22) I had similar issues, but not to this extent and he doesn't have his sister rebellious nature, which made it somewhat easier. I most denitely think kids today have it harder today than I did at least. Back when I was young there was booze and bud, that's about it. I knew about the harder stuff, but didn't actually come into contact with it until much later. Today, kids 10 years old are being offered Meth and ecstasy at school; how the hell is a 10 year old supposed to make a rational choice about that? As parents we can only supply as much information and support as we can, knowing that they ultimately have to make their own choices. I guess I can only hope that I have done enough as a parent to help her make the right choice, afterall I think its still illegal to keep them locked in closet until they're 25.

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Not to pry, just understand the dynamics involved-are you married(is there a wife) or ex that she may be indirectly "lashing out against due to not having a mother figure around to talk femalese with? If you have already been open with her about your past, you seem to be in a situation where you can ask for her honesty in return. Why do you do it? What would make you stop (arrested?)You are aware most employers drug test today? Affordability/what are you sacrificing finacially. Bottom line is- daughter, I would like you to stop and am willing to do everything within my power to do so (positive tone, not threatening tone ie juvenile boot camp)How are her grades? If shes 18, college is on the horizon and I would tell her the obvious, that if she goes away to school you as a dad will be virtually helpless at that point, which is why you are addressing it now. Take her to lunch or dinner somewhere she likes, tell her to grab a couple cds as you're both going for a drive, anything to create as pleasant an atmosphere as possible. Tell her your nervous, scared as a parent and not from the hey, I know your nervous and scared too perspective. I don't think they ever think we know what its like to be in their shoes, so let her see what its like for YOU to be in YOUR shoes. Ask her advice as to how you should deal with this and WHY. Again, I am not psychologist and do NOt speak form experience like this worked great for me. Its more like if I had this conversation coming up with my daughter, how I'd probably try to handle it. Good luck brother. Open lines of communication will aways serve better either now or for the future. We will not win all our parental battles, our parents never did right?

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

To your question, and I don't see as prying...merely attempting to gather more information in order to offer constructive input, her mother (aka my wife) has always been in her life and has always supported her, but as is the case in my experiences, the child seems to gravitate more towards the parent of the opposite sex for advice, so that puts me dead center (no pun, there is no chance she will come over to "our side", of that much I am sure). But all of the thoughts and input that have been posted here have been great, if nothing else than to know it is a common situation. It is my opinion that each child is compeltely unique and should be approached as such, in other words there is no formula that will work from kid to kid, you get to know your children as best you can and then parent to them as individuals. At least that's what I do. Thanks again all for the input.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

you are all scaring me - my girls are only 8 and 7 - cease and desist this conversation immediately!!!




(just kidding - i'm reading with great interest - but obviously with no relevant input at this point in my parental experience)

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 8, 2006 3:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Dire- they're young, but treat them now how you will treat them in 10 yrs and everything will be ok. Give in on the stuff that won't matter so they feel they are getting a fair deal. You see these parents who won't let their kids eat candy or watch Nick, and when they get to a friends house they OD on both. Theres that fine line between seeming like its a big thing and it really being a big thing. My daughter is starting to ask a lot of questions now about booze. Shes had and enjoys champagne, but we rarely have it. She liked Baileys in her coffe at my folks house. We don't have any. I told her Kahlua is similar,she asked if she could try some. I said yeah, take a slug right out of the bottle. She almost puked. She asked why I did that! I said what did you expect me to do? I et her try what ever I have-beer, vodka tonic, rum/ginger ale. She hates the taste of all of it. But again. Its yeah, sure your 18, take a gulp (ha ha). But I did not withhold it, i Gave her what she wanted, she won't be so tempted next time. I fear her first wine cooler though, but hey, its all part of growing up. I surely don't let her see me smoke though.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 8, 2006 4:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

i truly feel the same way jody - thanks for that!! i do give in on many things that they many feel i am being a cool dad about. they love me for it and it helps build a great relationship (thanks for helping me feel i am doing the right thing even with them being at such a young age).

i am tough at times, but am also a real cool dad at times (i think). maybe i am following your example in the long run, and it sounds to me like you raised one very well adjusted, very fine young woman (not that i know, just what i have gathered). congrats dad!! - hope i have as much success as it seems you have had - thanks for your input - i really do appreciate your knowledge, experience, and thoughts man. hope you dont mind if i pick your brain here and there in the future - i dont want to intrude though.

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 9, 2006 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

She's made it easier than its supposed to be. Part of it comes from her being around a lot of young adults when she was growing up and she just became part of the group. Theres a subtle difference between treating like little people than just a child.Thanks for the compliments. Love is the key above all else, it erases many mistakes made by both parties.

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2006 4:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Stratocaster ain't got nuthin' on my man Jody.

I move that we bestow the nickname POPS upon Jody C. He seems to have that paternal instinct nailed.

Strat can name 10 great Deals, but can he drop knowledge when it comes to fatherhood? Thanks Jody.

Let's get kids off the DARE program and introduce the DIRE program. Scar(e) 'em straight. Dire says, "look kids, stay off drugs or I'll rip yer lungs out".

Mixing song referrences, I know...

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 9, 2006 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Thats flattering, but sounds old. Maybe I'll turn it into an acronym for Perpetrator Of Parental Suspect or something.

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Dire, if I really wanted to scare you, I'd start talking about the "boyfriends" she has brought home from time to time. I wonder if we scared the crap out of girlfriends parents the way that these folks scare the crap out of me? I guess it is true: what goes around, comes around. Circle of life and whatnot. And the rest of you wonder why I talk about scotch so much.

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Poster: cosmicharlie Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

I recommend that kids have to wear shock collars AT a certain age-when they start dating...uhhh...bad idea i guess (can you tell I've never raised children?) i do crack myself up!

had to change that...and go out with a parental chaparone present

This post was modified by cosmicharlie on 2006-12-08 18:05:29

This post was modified by cosmicharlie on 2006-12-08 18:18:05

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

no - a good idea along with 24 hour satellite surveillance and a 200 mile remote for said shock collar.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

you are right!! - that is scarier - thanks for that thought!

and combining the two thoughts........ arrghhh.

scotch please????? and make it a double, thank you.

This post was modified by direwolf0701 on 2006-12-08 18:06:28

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Poster: sparky999255 Date: Dec 8, 2006 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

A friend of mine, who is a local police officer, was telling me about the first time a boy came to pick up his daughter. It was just this past summer and it scared the hell out of him. I can certainly wait for that (my daughter is 7). Anyways, he told me the line he used on the little bastard picking up his daughter and I plan to use it someday:

"Whatever you have planned for my daughter, just remember don't stick anything in her that you don't want me to stick in you." and just for good measure he said he looked square at the kid and said, "I'm not kidding and I better not find out that you told her about this little conversation."

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 8, 2006 4:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

awesome!!!! i love that!!!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 8, 2006 9:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

My girl is 5, but it's not too early to have input in the sense that living out here in California my daughter is already exposed to the weed when we go to festivals and the like. My approach, thus far, has been to say that smoking is bad for you (because her grandmother has cancer and smokes like a chimney, it is pretty easy for her to make that connection), I never toke in front of her and/or hang out with her when slightly addled since I think kids are pretty good at picking it up. When she gets older, I'll tell her what I told kids when I taught high school - this country's drug laws are fucking insane BUT that I don't think minors should be experimenting with substances precisely because of the well-documented adverse impacts on physical and emotional development. If that makes me a hypocrite because I started toking in 7th grade (thanks to friends' older sibs who thought it was "cool" to get the little guys stoned), so be it. Bottom line - honesty and openess with kids seems to be the best approach. Again, I'm not having that conversation with a 5 year old, but in this day and age, I'll be having it a lot sooner than my parents had it with me (which only occured after they "busted" me).

And don't start me on "abstinence" pledges in lieu of sex education . . .

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Poster: Fishead Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

you said " she" right ...don't worry about the pot as you know its the gateway to harder drugs or so THEY say..

it's cocaine /crack/booze you got to worry about ..she will grow out of the pot stages and if not ..most of the women i know who still toke are responsible adults with good jobs...

don't worry so much ..just be there for her and keep that ole' watchful eye open ....

peace

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 8, 2006 6:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

SDH. Ah, the old hypocritical parent dilema. How about "do as I say and not as I do?" Never a very good one for me, setting an example always tended towards a better understanding.

Having spent the better part of 15 years in the haze, I regret the things I didn't get accomplished that at this point would be meaningless. Face it, getting and being fucked up is wasted time, and in retrospect, time that can never be recaptured. You wont know until way futher down the line what opportunities you missed. It isn't until you're old enough and secure enough in your environment that you can reflect on the things that may have passed you by.

From my perspective, I can't belittle or bemoan using pot or any other escape mechanism unless it becomes habitual. When it comes to the point where anything supercedes building a good foundation for the productive years of your life, then there's a problem.

The best advice I can give is to accept and acknowledge it's use. Then advocate it's use only as a reward for hard work, or for reaching personal goals. Weekend warriors seem to know that having their heads on straight for the majority of their productive lives is paramount to moving forward.


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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Thanks for the support, Earl. Nice to know others have faced the same issue and are approaching it in a level headed way. Thanks also for backing me up on the "wasted years" thought. Yes, I feel I have acheived some good things in my time here, but I will always wonder if I might have done more if so much of my earlier days weren't spent give mouth-to-mouth ressucitation to a stanky, mung filled plastic tube. Well, again, I guess the best we can do is to look forward and help our kids make better choices without limiting them.

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Poster: cosmicharlie Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

i say limit the hell outta them, concerning drugs...until they can make rational decisions. Whats the study that say's it takes 18-20 years before the brain fully develops?
MC being the exception of course...I did'nt smoke anything till i wuz 20. An i'l say, pot hzint efectad mee A bIt!

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

I don't envy you, and how I dread the years that I will soon be facing as a dad. My daughter turns 10 next weekend. I've tried to be as pre-emptive as I possibly can, saying to her for years now that as she gets older, her friends will try to coax her into getting high or drunk, but that she can live her entire life without ever letting those hindrances rear their ugly heads. I have tried to be candid about it, as well, trying to maintain an image in her mind that Daddy is a good, productive man even though he made some bad decisions when he was younger that resulted in a lot of dissapointment and squandered ambition. I stress that she can go as far as she wants to go in life, and I hope that will be a long, long way, but that all of that other stuff will only serve to block her from getting there. Back in the day, I thought Nancy Reagan's "just say no" campaign was ridiculous. Now that I've spent a decade trying to exert some positive influence on the child, though, I recognize the merits of putting the idea of abstinenence into your kids' heads at an early age in terms that are simple enough for them to grasp. Plus, we live across the street from the local United Church of Christ where our little girl has been a Sunday morning fixture since pre-school, and I feel that has been a help.

As far as the focus of this forum is concerned with the topic at hand, she has grown up well aware that Dad is a Dead Head. She knows what a big deal Jerry Garcia was, and still is, in my life, and I've told her how badly he messed himself up with drugs and what a sad situation it was.

It is a cliche', but my oh my, they do grow up quickly. When she was little, she viewed it as an absolute necessity every night for her to send me off to work at the rock-n-roll station by telling me that I had to "play 'Smoove' (her pronunciation of that Santana mega-hit from the Supernatural album), and Shakedown Street, and the song about the band (Uncle John's Band, which I use to play for her on guitar-that "goddamn" line in the song was tricky), and the monkey song (Monkey & The Engineer-another song in my repertoire-great song for kids)." The list was later amended to include "the bone song," which was Thorogood's Bad To The Bone. I never understood what she saw in that one, but it was her ritual that she conducted every evening for close to three years before she finally grew out of it. Those were the days, though.

Innocence fades, but we do every damned thing we can as parents to prolong it. I wish I could tell you the absolute answer to your dilemma, but I don't know what it is. There probably isn't one, because every kid and every family is different, but by all means, I wish you all the best in trying to figure out what it is for you. And remember if nothing else that, as the song says, love will see you through.

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Very well said, sir. I remember back in the crazy days getting all philosophical and shit, wondering why am I here? What will I leave behind when I'm gone? Now, as a father, the answer is crystal clear. A big reason why I am here is to make sure that my chilldren are raised in such a way that they become contributing members of society, maybe not Jonas Saulk's or Ghandi's, but folks who pull their own weight and help out others from time to time. I think I pulled that one off with my son. As for what I leave behind, if my kids think of me just half as much as I think of my father and with just a fraction of the same respect, I will leave this earth happy.
Damn, who says we only talk about fat musicians?

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2006-12-08 18:37:49

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Poster: SactownTom Date: Dec 8, 2006 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

This has been a great thread. I first read it around 6:45 PST, before there had been any responses, and I've been giving it a tremendous amount of thought. I think many others have very eloquently expressed a lot of what I was thinking about this issue. I have a son who turned 15 last month and is a freshman in high school. I've had several conversations with him about this over the last three years or so.
I'm one of those who came of age in the 70's--I started smoking herb and drinking at 13-14. Did lots of psychedelics up to about 86. Did lots of coke in the 80's (worst drug ever for me--never did meth, tho). I was a chronic pot smoker for more than 25 years--you know, wake and bake, all day every day--4:20 24/7. I know that I had a ton of fun along the way, but I also know I squandered many opportunities and much potential along the way as well (7+ years of college-no degree!).
My son's mother (my ex since he was 2), has had substance abuse issues of her own (her drug of choice was the coke). Since seperating from her, I only smoked herb and drank beer and the occcasional JD (rarely drinking to excess). I still smoked all day, every day. In spite of that, I was able to put together a pretty good life for my self--got a good job, met and married a great woman, had another son with her.
At the risk of boring you all to death, I'll quit with the background. 2 1/2 years ago, I sought treatment for my issues with the herb. My wife was tired of me being baked all the time, and I didn't like the way I felt as I sat in my garage by myself getting high. I was on the verge of fucking up my good life. So ,I've been doing the recovery deal since June '04. My life is better than ever, and I do not regret the decision to get help.
To bring it around to the topic at hand, I have had very open and honest discussions with my son about the choices I made, and the consequences of those choices. I have tried to make him aware of his predisposition for addiction, and have used my history as lesson for him. I didn't get into it here, but I screwed my life up pretty good--in large part due to my use of mind altering chemicals. I am NOT a zealot, and do not begrudge anyone on this forum or anywhere else the pleasure of a good scotch or some dank buds. I just couldn't enjoy like that--I needed to be high all the time (not so good).
I'm not sure this is contributing to this thread at all. I don't know why I laid this out here, but I guess I needed to. I think most people can enjoy getting a buzz now and then, and not let it get in the way of their life. Others have a little more difficulty with it. I do agree that our kids need some maturity, need to have progressed on their path a ways, before they can make an informed decision on drinking and smoking and the like. I see nothing wrong with smoking herb, or drinking, or even (especially) psychedelics when one is ready for that. I just don't think my 15 year old is ready to make that call yet. We're all different, and someone like Max seems to have his head on pretty damn straight (for a deadhead!). I would never doubt that he knows himself and what he is ready for at this time in his life.
Good luck SDH. You seem to be a thoughtful and loving parent. The guess from here is your kids have and will make the right decisions in their lives, in no small part because of their dad. Keep us posted. I'm going to be going through this for the next 3 years or so--it can only be easier if I keep a clear head.
Thanks to this forum. I feel blessed to have found this place and some kindred spirits. (no pun intended)

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Very well said friend. Sounds like your son has got a good father. Best of luck with him, but it sounds like you've got your house in order and I'm sure things will work out. Very refreshing to hear folks admit to getting help when they really need it, I find its probably the most mature thing a person can do, takes a lot of guts to recognize one's own faults and that they can't be remedied w/out some outside help. Congratulations, my friend.

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Poster: daliguana Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

We have a soon-to-be three-year-old daughter. I don't hide the fact that I drink coffee or smoke weed. I smoke so rarely anymore that its not a big issue. Like, maybe on holidays out on the porch, and at festivals. But, like coffee, alcohol and the like, its not appropriate behaviour for a youngster. I didn't smoke/take any drugs until I was 17 and out of the house. It was always made very clear that drugs were NOT ALLOWED in my family, and so when I started to dabble and eventually ended up on the harder stuff, I completely disassociated with my family. I remember getting the call about my grandmother's death at a bar. For about 6 years made/recieved about 1 call a year from the folks. When I reached out in '96 and told my parents that I was on the edge of the world and didn't know if I was going to fall, they drove the 90 miles in a blizzard that took five hours. They were shocked and appaled when I told them I'd been using speed for the previous three years. But, they took me in and helped my be well again. I guess what I'm trying to say (and I think, considering most of our pasts, may be irrelevent) that accepting your child's experimentation and being able to keep lines of communication open is of greatest importance. I'm not due for that situation for at least a decade, but I appreciate everyone's honesty and support for a fellow. Personally, I have many negative experiences to relay to my daughter when/if she ever starts experimenting. I've been fired for smoking on the job at least once - not because it affected my performance, just because you can't get caught and suffer no consequenses (even in the food industry). As a student in the medical field, I know that drug testing is rampant. Like I said, smoking pot has kind of lost its luster, so I don't indulge much anymore. And will easily pass any drug screen. Best of luck with that one (and all of us who will be experiencing it in the future). I want to foster a relationship with my daughter that she can be open and honest with me about all things and that she will know that I will offer her advise and comfort always. But, I'd steer her clear of smoking/drinking until at least 18 due to the fact that the brain is still developing at that stage. I drank pretty heavily in HS and I believe that it didn't allow me the opportunity to learn how to deal with emotions well. But, my parents made an ultimatum out of that, and I left home at 17. My overall feelings at that time were "they're not going to accept me as who I am, so I'll just keep them out". And I did for about a decade. Now, at age 36 we're on great terms. I don't know what would have come of my using if I'd had a 'safe place' to come to my parents and be open and honest with them. But, with five younger siblings, they did not want bad influences around. When I came home broken and bleeding in '96, I think I made an impression on my youngest siblings who were still in HS at the time. They were able to see first hand what drugs like cocaine and meth can do to you. At least I'd like to think that influenced their choices then and now (my youngest brother is 20). Enough from me...

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Somebody call Oprah's daddy and tell him to get Oprah off the pipe!! We need a pick.

SDH - Fear the meth. It is THE most evil substance on earth!

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Poster: SDH2O Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Did you hear about the lastet "improved" meth? Apparently they have found a way to concentrate the meth with caffeine into a pill form, and just to be extra fun, they have flavored the pills like a Flintstones Chewable vitamin. Nice. Kill them all. Oh, sorry, didn't mean to get all Reagan on you; I see myself in general as a Liberal Democrat, but when it comes to that shit and kids, I become very Republican.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Dec 8, 2006 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

now aint that just good news - hadn't heard that - what a bunch of assholes!!! unreal

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Poster: Cranky1 Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

In no particular order.... parental responsibility comes first, so how you turned out is not the issue. If you feel the need to bring your influence to bear to limit or prohibit, go for it, while trying to maintain an open dialog. Thorny issue. Good luck!

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Poster: Furthur Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

This is sometimes a rather perilous road to navigate.It makes one feel like quite the hypocrite telling your child what they are doing is wrong when (in my case) you continue to do the opposite. I raised three kids (now 31,28,25) and never tried to hide anything from them as they were growing up.When the time arrives,as it usually does, that they begin to get into something you see as detrimental to their growth be it tobacco,alcohol or drugs you naturally become concerned.I found that the thing to do was tell them not to be using when they went to school and that when their work was complete they were allowed to indulge at home.This seemed fair to them and alleviated some pressure on me as well,since not knowing where they are or who they are with is sometimes just as big a concern.After a while it got to the point where for them the novelty wore off and that was the end of it.I can't say this method works for everyone but it seems to beat trying to force them to stop doing something you do not condone only to have them doing it behind your back and resulting in some unforseen consequences.

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Poster: SinsOfTheFather Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

SDH-

From reading your posts seems like you are nice guy and a good parent. As long as you are directly involved in your kids' everyday lives, then I think they will be fine...

Like almost everything else, I believe smoking nugz is basically harmless in moderate amounts. But that is coming from someone who smokes with his whole family.

If one smokes to escape from "reality" as opposed to just have fun then perhaps there are deeper issues to be dealt with, and in that case it is possible that anything else that is pleasurable could just as likely take its place.

This next line is going to sound so rude, but I really don't mean it to be, it is the shortcoming of text vs. voice. If you feel you could have done something "more" or something else in life had you not smoked as much, perhaps there were other things that affected your motivations...

The bottom line is, if you really love your kids, and they are aware of this fact and you actively participate in their day-to-day lives, then there should be very little to worry about. As long as smoking doesn't lead to bad grades or a radical shift in your kid's personality/attitude then it's not really a big deal.

Sorry if my post sounds rude or insulting, it is not at all intended to be; I have nothing but respect and love for all of the posters here.

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Poster: jackstraw86 Date: Dec 8, 2006 8:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

All I can say as I read this thread is that you all have made me proud to be a Dead Head for 27 years. I have 2 step kids (boys 18 & 13) and 2 of my own, (girl 16 & boy 13) and this is something that's been on my mind for years. I am actively involved with my kids and I really like Jody's thoughts. If you're there and involved and open and honest, it all falls into place. The know I've been a Dead Head since way before they were a glimmer in their mothers' eyes. And as they get older, they learn that Heads have at the very least, been exposed to the drug underworld. This whole thread has been a heartwarming and very mature approach to this subject. We all have something to take away from this, even if we don't have kids. I agree that this is something that can't be ignored. I hate the lies and the way that the whole "War on Drugs" situation is a big fat lie and it's a tough line to walk to undo that and keep the respect of our kids at the same time. But it all comes down to personal responsibility. I'm a Libertarian and it always seems to come down to that in my book. Be responsible, don't be a screw-up and make REAL educated choices about life. Be a useful cog and contribute. If a little happy smoke or an insightful trip helps to achieve that, then that's fine. But wait until you're an adult and have the wherewithal and personal discipline to stay away from the things that can do real personal and family harm like physically addictive drugs. Be open, honest, and be a signpost to new space. Humanity can really use that at this point.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 8, 2006 3:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

SDH. Thanks, this has been the finest and most thought provoking thread around here in a long time. This is a challenge that many of us will face. The thoughts provided here mostly stem from the common ground that we've all experienced, so there's a genuine-ness that I don't think could be equalled in any other place. For once, we see the real value of this kind of forum, my brothers and sisters.

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2006 4:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Daliguana - Margaret and I started dating around the age of 20. Almost 36 now too. We fell in to the whole crank thing here in CA.

It was a short 2 years, but my life changed. I've known folks who have found their way back and those who haven't. You've gotta to have something to grab-hold of. For me, I just missed my family.

I couldn't look any body in the eye when I was high on that stuff, so I just stayed away. Got straight, cold-turkey almost 10 years ago. My parents and in-laws barely know the half of what Maggs and I went through....they need not know.

We're happy and healthy today. Whenever I hear about meth and it's victims, I get sad. It's like the airplane crash survivor. The guy in the next seat dies and you live, but feel guilty. I feel bad for those who lose their way w/ drugs and I wonder why I was able to return from the living-dead...just lucky, I guess.

Meth: Steals your soul and rots your body...mmmm, mmmmm, good cracker!

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 8, 2006 4:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Flow: There's folks that are destined to never get it. Never have that sense of drowning. Never feel lost, never get the wake up call. I don't know whether it's genetic, or apathy or what, but you shouldn't feel responsible for their fates. There has to be some time in a persons life when they act of their own accord, face the music, and dig themselves out of the hole they created of their own free will. You should have learned that lesson better than anyone, by your own experience.

...and your own free will is the only thing that guarantees a life free from that kind of prison.

Congratulations on making it.

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2006 10:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Thanks Earl. Too true. I currently have a cousin and in-law struggling against the meth beast, and losing. I have a realistic perspective. These are grown-up people who walked eyes-open in to the slimy world of meth....what happens from here is their choice. Nobody can help really.

Blues Traveler - Regarding Steven Lyrics

Well I've guessed your name and I'm sure you know
mine
I'd like to discuss our mutual friend

I
can't help but feel that I left him behind
Does he
still stay with you or did his pain ever end

I
guess
I don't deserve to know
If he ever let
go
I guess I don't really need to see
If he
wound up with you or did he ever break free

When we
were both young, you took us in
And taught us to play
survival games
He'd lost so much that you let him
win
But I had a home so it just wasn't the same
I had the strength To look you in the eye
And
say goodbye
I was lucky And I didn't have to
play
Does he still stay with you or did he get away

I used what I had and I escaped
I smelled something
good and I followed its track
But all he could smell was
the world that you shaped
It took all my strength and I
just couldn't look back
I remember him Calling after me
I keep that memory
The last thing
he screamed out aloud
Was "Hey don't you leave me
alone!" Yeah he might live with you but he called me his
home

I guessed your name and some day so will he
Cause one of these ides he's gonna break free
Cause
one of these ides he's gonna break free
Cause one of
these ides he's gonna break...


If you're dealing w/ a friend or relative on dope, you know what Popper's saying...

Thanks again Earl. Your post reminded me of this tune.



This post was modified by high flow on 2006-12-09 06:46:05

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Poster: daliguana Date: Dec 8, 2006 7:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: An Parental Head's Dilemma

Yeah, I had to remove myself from the 'people, places and things'. Fate was shining on me in the fact that we left town to care for a relative - and our child was conceived right as we left! Saved our lives. We were pretty much done with it, but I relapsed for a couple months after returning. Love of a good woman and the birth of our child got me straight. Been clean for three years now. Good to see that some make it out alive.